MyPaipoBoards Forums

Something you don't see everyday - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I2nC392fow

That's cool, i just read the interview on him http://mypaipoboards.org/interviews/Joh ... 0922.shtml.

Guys like this are becoming a real inspiration to me, I used to see the guy doing something really different as the 'odd ball", but now I get it!!!

My first paipos were second hand boards I got from John. While he had other paipo role models to learn surfing, his boards are unique. One of the really interesting aspects of the paipo board experience, is learning to start over again, like a beginner. Down the bottom of the pecking order, having to figure out stuff yourself and on a board that is different. Vive la difference.

I found this today http://www.essentialsurfing.com/bottom_contour.html

Seems the nofin would be a belly hull.

I think that you are correct. By going as wide as they are, planing should be easier than in a narrow board. I am having another Xylem shaped with rolled bottom (belly) and it is going to be 22 inches wide like the No-Fin.

spudnut wrote:I think that you are correct. By going as wide as they are, planing should be easier than in a narrow board. I am having another Xylem shaped with rolled bottom (belly) and it is going to be 22 inches wide like the No-Fin.

Will be interested to see how the "belly hull" goes, i would think it would push a lot of water.

krusher74 wrote:

spudnut wrote:I think that you are correct. By going as wide as they are, planing should be easier than in a narrow board. I am having another Xylem shaped with rolled bottom (belly) and it is going to be 22 inches wide like the No-Fin.

Will be interested to see how the "belly hull" goes, i would think it would push a lot of water.

I agree about the rolled bellies pushing too much water for my tastes. It has been a quandary for me because the rolled belly can mitigate some of the bounce created by cross-chop/cross wavelets on the faces of overhead-plus open ocean waves.

On my other Xylem board, it most certainly does NOT push water. It also really helps with bump and chop in the water.

spudnut wrote:On my other Xylem board, it most certainly does NOT push water. It also really helps with bump and chop in the water.

I would think the help with chop is the fact its more of a displacement hull, cutting through chop rather than skimming and bouncing across it. When I used the term "pushing water" I was more referring to the fact a displacement hull usually uses more energy to cut through water, than a planning hull skimming on top of it.

Doe you find the belly hull slower and harder to surf (get speed) in small waves.

OPINION (its free so take it for what you paid):
a displacement hull is a lot more complicated than just having a belly in the bottom. belly in the bottom would be slower, maybe. but, as a blanket statement shows a little less knowledge and experience in riding them?

a true displacement hull takes into effect the rail shape, curve, length of board, rocker, width, nose and tail configurations, and how many skegs/fins you are going to use on the board. everything has to be right, if it aint, youre doomed for a fat, slow pig. and for sure they aint for everyone. most guys would do well just to stay on boards that are flat with a little v in the tail. a little trick to make a flat bottom board catch waves as well as a d.hull, is to put a little belly in the nose or even a slight v (it works the same). flat bottoms easier to ride, fast enough to keep you in the safe areas of the wave and anyone can shape them. but if you want a d.hull, get ready to have a learning curve, and not many folks can shape them right. but like anything worth working for, the payoff is going to be huge, especially the barrel riding, snap turns mid-face and you can ride so super high in the barrel its funny.

before embarking on the journey i read a pile of articles and I talked long and hard with a couple of greenough type spoon makers (d.hulls that haul ass, thats why everyone wants to surf like little george, i know i do?) and greg liddle and marc andrieni. when i read the articles i thought, hey, the things most standup people hate about d.hulls are all the reasons i think i want one to lay down on. i had Brian Hilbers, Klaus Jones, Jeff McCallum make me a ton of hulls before I started shaping them myself. d.hulls haul a$$ and "can/will" totally out perform a flat bottom in big surf. example, hauling a$$ down a 6-8' wave or bigger, you decide, i wanna go up there, so you try and crank a hard turn up the heaving face but the wide, flat bottom wont let you pull up the outside rail or if you can it took you so long now youre facing being in the wrong spot or worse. With the right d.hull, thats made easier because of the hull shape and they WANT to climb, youre job is to make them go down. Watch films of greenough, see how effortless his velo's climb and then a quick lean will bring them down again?

i rode a kneeboard for 45 years and when making the move to conventional bellyboards (15 of them), found them wanting. i set out to make a bellyboard just as fast and manuverable as one of my kneeboards.

sorry to be so opinionated (we all have them) but i'm pretty passionate about the almighty displacement hull.

krusher74 wrote:

spudnut wrote:On my other Xylem board, it most certainly does NOT push water. It also really helps with bump and chop in the water.

I would think the help with chop is the fact its more of a displacement hull, cutting through chop rather than skimming and bouncing across it. When I used the term "pushing water" I was more referring to the fact a displacement hull usually uses more energy to cut through water, than a planning hull skimming on top of it.

Doe you find the belly hull slower and harder to surf (get speed) in small waves.

In comparing the Xylem ( rolled bottom, knife rails, paulownia wood) to my plypo (1/2 marine doug fir, dead flat, box rails); both boards same outline:

1) Neither board pushes water
2) Paulownia has much more float than plywood
3) Xylem is much more maneuverable
4) Xylem has much better hold in the barrel without sideslipping
5) Both plane very easily even in small surf
6) Plypo is slightly faster but Xylem is still faster than everyone out there. I have to be careful to cutback quick enough because both boards will outrun a lot of waves.
7) Plypo is very inexpensive!
8) Both awesome and work incredibly well

Soulglider, no apology needed! That was an excellent and well informed rant and I loved reading it!!!

A rolled bottom of equal width to a flat bottom will have less planning area so be somewhat slower but since the added curves are perpendicular to the water flow should not be pushing water I don't think. In a turn, somewhat different dynamics of course.

i'm no scientist so i cant totally explain why but, i think because a wave is a moving cave of energy without any real flat spots it would be hard to say that, this bottom works better or that bottom works better. each wave is different, there arent to many flat spots (as in a test tank) where a board would be totally down in or on the water. moving across a wave, rail buried, maybe half the board is in and the other half is out of the water. so in reality there is only a slight curve (from the belly) that is actually in the water. it sounds like your xzlem has many d.hull characteristics. knifey rail, rounded bottom.

my hulls are the same. my rails are traditional d.hull rails with the exception that instead of being rounded, mine are almost sharp. that causes the rail to really grab the face (like your xzlem) and with the help of a fin, when the board is up on rail, as in a turn, it makes turning really snappy. i think youre getting the same type of thing out of your xzlem's.

i love that theories are something to get you motivated but, that experience really proves the thing!

I don't know if it is a DH but it is a Galera nofin and a lot of fun.

Bob

soulglider wrote:OPINION (its free so take it for what you paid):
a displacement hull is a lot more complicated than just having a belly in the bottom. belly in the bottom would be slower, maybe. but, as a blanket statement shows a little less knowledge and experience in riding them?

a true displacement hull takes into effect the rail shape, curve, length of board, rocker, width, nose and tail configurations, and how many skegs/fins you are going to use on the board. everything has to be right, if it aint, youre doomed for a fat, slow pig. and for sure they aint for everyone. most guys would do well just to stay on boards that are flat with a little v in the tail. a little trick to make a flat bottom board catch waves as well as a d.hull, is to put a little belly in the nose or even a slight v (it works the same). flat bottoms easier to ride, fast enough to keep you in the safe areas of the wave and anyone can shape them. but if you want a d.hull, get ready to have a learning curve, and not many folks can shape them right. but like anything worth working for, the payoff is going to be huge, especially the barrel riding, snap turns mid-face and you can ride so super high in the barrel its funny.

before embarking on the journey i read a pile of articles and I talked long and hard with a couple of greenough type spoon makers (d.hulls that haul ass, thats why everyone wants to surf like little george, i know i do?) and greg liddle and marc andrieni. when i read the articles i thought, hey, the things most standup people hate about d.hulls are all the reasons i think i want one to lay down on. i had Brian Hilbers, Klaus Jones, Jeff McCallum make me a ton of hulls before I started shaping them myself. d.hulls haul a$$ and "can/will" totally out perform a flat bottom in big surf. example, hauling a$$ down a 6-8' wave or bigger, you decide, i wanna go up there, so you try and crank a hard turn up the heaving face but the wide, flat bottom wont let you pull up the outside rail or if you can it took you so long now youre facing being in the wrong spot or worse. With the right d.hull, thats made easier because of the hull shape and they WANT to climb, youre job is to make them go down. Watch films of greenough, see how effortless his velo's climb and then a quick lean will bring them down again?

i rode a kneeboard for 45 years and when making the move to conventional bellyboards (15 of them), found them wanting. i set out to make a bellyboard just as fast and manuverable as one of my kneeboards.

sorry to be so opinionated (we all have them) but i'm pretty passionate about the almighty displacement hull.

I need a board from you.
Your description of your hulls turning up the face is exactly what I want to do but am being restricted by in my current board.
If only shipping a board to Australia wasn't so expensive.
Or is it?

i will check it out.i dont try and make too much off my boards, just gas (petrol), materials and time. i do it for the love of making them. no color quad is $495. single fin with a box (no fin) $475. sanded finish. i'll let you know then you let me know.

Pete,

I've used Tradewinds freight to ship a few boards from Hawaii to Oz (door to door) - http://www.twcf.com.au/

Freight can be exxy, so there may be local options worth pursuing. E-mail if you like.

Bob

Soulglider,

I would really like to ride one of your boards. I will be in Southern California this summer.

Ted

If Ted is coming to SoCal this summer, we ought to get together for another gathering of the tribe............